Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (2025)

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Created by: Azkaban at: 8/5/2019 10:47 AM (12 Replies)

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8/5/2019 10:47 AM
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  • Azkaban

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (5)

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Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (9) (7)

Hi

I am trying to learn about how the failsafe concept of the S7-1500 and how the failsafe input/output modules works on e.g. ET200SP modules. I have found a topic (TOPIC)about a S7-300F where fritz gives a very good explanation about the failsafe concept. Is this still relevant for the S7-1500 or does that have a new concept?

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Azkaban

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8/5/2019 11:15 AM
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  • Towome

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (11)

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Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (17) (624)

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (18)

Hi,

do you still know the following documents?

Regards,

Towome


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8/5/2019 11:49 AM
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  • Azkaban

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (21)

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Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (25) (7)

Hi Towome

Yes I know them, I am actually in the progress of reading them (still in the start). But I stumbled upon the other topic where fritz has giving a very good and precise explanation, and I was just wondering if that still was the case for the S7-1500 series :)

But I guess that when I am done with the documents, I will have my answer :)

Towome

Hi,

do you still know the following documents?

Regards,

Towome

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8/5/2019 1:40 PM
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  • Azkaban

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (27)

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Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (31) (7)

Hi

I have read the documents quickly through, but I can't seem to find anything like the post from the other topic. There is nothing about how it works in general and about diversity and redundancy.

This is what fritz wrote:

"The TUV certificate is in general the "ultimate" certificate to have for it, but good on you for questioning what is really going on behind the scenes and how does Siemens "get away" with doing CAT4/SIL3 certified safetyin a single F-CPU.

The answer is in general quite simple: Through time based redundancy and diversity.

What this means is this:
You program your safety logic in F-LAD and/or F-FBD.
When youhit the compile button, the compiler takes your safety logic andinverts it as well as converts it toa WORD based logic (this gives you diversity).

When the Safety program is executed, it willbe executed twice every time its called (without you as a programmer having to "worry" about it).
First execution is done on what youprogrammed followed by an execution of the "diversified" (inverted and WORD based) logic that the compiler created for you (this is the "time based redundancy" part).

Whenboth executions are done the safety call compares the resultsand "expects" that they will be exactly opposite (and if not shut down the CPU).

This is how Siemens is able to achieve TUV certified CAT4/SIL3 rating for a single CPUand it is not only pretty "safe" but also pretty clever in my humble opinion."

Best regards

Azkaban

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8/6/2019 8:52 AM
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  • Azkaban

Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (33)

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Failsafe concept - 218045 - Industry Support Siemens (37) (7)

Hi

I have read a little bit more, and would like to know if this is understood correctly:

Value status bit: Not a failsafe signal, but can be used on all I/O modules. Bit = TRUE, when the channel/module is okay. Bit = FALSE, when the channel/module detects an error.

QBAD signal: Failsafe signal. Has the opposite value of the input/output. So when the output is set to FALSE, the QBAD signal will be TRUE, and vice versa.

Is this correct understood?

Best regards

Azkaban

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